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Poster: DeadATL Date: Sep 3, 2009 3:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ann Coulter is a Deadhead 
who says she has seen about 67 shows. And Tucker Carlson estimates that he’s seen 50 shows. Are the values of the Grateful 
Dead compatible with the values 
of right-wing politics?
Friends of Fox, Landover, MD
The values are not compatible. That said, I did an interview once with Tucker Carlson and found him to be a very 
nice guy. He didn’t blast me about my politics and I didn’t blast him about his. As for whatshername, phfft.

===

The interview with Phil posted in another thread was fun to read. However, I'm curious to know how Deadheads who are right of center feel about the comment above. NOTE: please don't make this a flame war about politics.

I'm to the right of the vast majority of Deadheads, and I often feel like a fish out of water. Anyone else in the same boat? Do you attempt to reconcile the two positions? I just live with the contradiction, though my deeper-held beliefs are my values not the Dead.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 3, 2009 5:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I would'nt call Ann Coulter (Coultergiest) right of center
she is an extremist and hypoccrit. She has also been known to don her racist garb and make a complete ass out of herself.
Tucker well it was hysterical to watch John Stewart take it to him and call him out on the hypocricy of the right.
MSNBC had to shitcan Tucker cause I guess he lost his objectivity and could no longer keep his white sheet hidden from veiw. He now works for FIXed News.
I may keep a little to much "hippie hopfulness" ready to defend the left but I know whats good and bad and right and wrong Ann Coultrgiest wrong, Hells Anggels being responsible for the welfare of concert go'ers wrong Tucker Carlson refusing to be objective enough to consider a black man for pres. wrong.
I believe I am a traditionist Deadhead so I felt compelled to post ( I know many many bikers some wearing colors some not what happened at altamont was a travesty )
Peace and LOVE to the GD forum

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

good old days

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Cheney / Bush / Obama

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"trust me"

Billary era

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these days

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what's next?

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Joe 6-pack loves you

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Poster: buscameby Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I love it!!!

Not that anyone else should give a sh*t what I think.

I have been very active politically over my 50 years, when I saw oppression and bullsh*t I was quick to speak out.

I believed the "Republican", less govt involvement was right when I was young and naive, then I saw how greed is REAL, I saw how it needs controls. I really thought they meant we should be free to pursue our own lives, then Jerry Falwell and klan decided only the "Moral Right" were free.

I see what big govt has done to our economy and our lack of control on both sides is about to bring us down now.

The USA was a great experiment and when all learn to take real responsibility for our thoughts words and deeds and KNOW we are all in this boat together and that we need to SHARE our gifts and talents we may well try again to Live in FREEDOM AND with LIBERTY.

PERFECTA LIBERTAS


This post was modified by buscameby on 2009-09-04 03:21:05

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Sep 3, 2009 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Aug 27, 2009

Academy Award-winner
actor, director and writer
Tim Robbins said

robbins-web.jpg

The truth is the most important thing. The truth is what matters. In the long run, if you know the truth and you don’t speak it, you compromise yourself so much more than anything that might be kept from you if you speak out in a time of crisis. That’s, for me, what defines a person, is what they’re willing to do and what they’re willing to risk to speak the truth.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I like Mr. Robbins, and esp the movie Jacob's Ladder.

While things are not always black & white, there is truth and the shame about our country is that we're afraid of it, and lots of other things.

Just hear people spout crap about "what Obabma is doing to the country" is enervating. Such a lie -- when the US national gov't been going in debt about every year. Except Clinton 2 times I thing.

And "death panel" and gov't run health care. What the hell is Medicare? If the market is so efficient then why do we spend like 2x everyone else and still come out 37th in world ranking?

You'd think everyone would realize that corporate welfare is bankrupting the US, but no, let's not interfere with the "market." The right wing should take pride in our gov't -- it's the best that money can buy.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

spaced -

Make sure you read my response post carefully before you launch tactical on me. We're on the same side sorta.

It is clear you and I both despise Big Government - you take your shots from the left with a sniper rifle shooting at the right, I take my shots from slightly right of center (and green) - but I use a shotgun on the whole freakin' crowd.

Here's the rub as far as "what Obama is doing to the country". It's an accurate statement - he's doing nothing for the country. He ran on a platform of promised change, yet he did nothing to enable such change.

Geithner??? What the bloody fuck? Turbo Timmy came straight out of the New York Fed - where he authored and engineered the criminal bailout of Bear Stearns and JP Morgan Chase in what was one of the largest criminal fleecings of the American taxpayers in history. And the rest of the bastards on Capitol Hill were complicit - they voted for the bailout against the wishes of 3 out of 4 Americans.

Obama has done nothing except install and maintain the status quo from the left. He is continuing the failed policies of every administration going back to Hoover.

Wall Street oversight??? Corporate greed??? Horse shit - those are hot button topics that resonate well with a base that is largely unjustifiably self-entitled. If he wants to enact real, no-shit meaningful change he should call for the dismantling of the Federal Reserve. The banking industry, in bed with the Treasury Department and the professional politicians is what is crippling this country. The dollar will go to zero within the next four years when China and Japan have put just a little more distance between us and their addiction to funding our nation's debt

Obama has/had the chance to go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever - all he had to do was have the vision, courage and leadership to throw the bullshit flag on the Federal Reserve.

It is that simple.

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-09-04 11:48:03

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-09-04 11:50:05

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Hey Mando,

I'm with you--I really am--as a left-leaning liberal I'm pretty furious w/Obama for caving on nearly every issue he ran on, especially his cowardly approach to health care reform, which in the end will be just another huge giveaway to the health insurance industry.....

BUT when it comes to your take on Wall Street and Corporate greed, I have to respectfully disagree. This is more than a "hot-button" issue. The things those guys pulled were real and hurt millions of people, and lack of oversight and regulation were very much the problem.

Go check out the new documentary "American Casino" and you'll see what I mean. Here's one summation of what's seen in the film:

We meet Frank L. Raiter, a senior executive in charge of rating mortgage bonds at Standard & Poor’s who quit in disgust when ordered to guess the rating of billion-dollar subprime securities. Mr. Raiter recalls an internal e-mail message, in which a colleague crowed: “We rate every deal. It could be structured by cows, and we would rate it.” Another e-mail message voiced the hope that everyone is retired “by the time this house of cards falters.”

Raiter is the exception. The others took advantage of a "look the other way" approach to Wall Street that ended up crippling the nation.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

grendel -

I sort of agree with you. Lack of oversight on Wall Street, coupled with Wall Street greed has hurt Main Street to a degree. It has not however, crippled the country.

Wall Street greed and lack of regulation is a problem that pales in comparison to the plain and simple fact that the Federal Reserve operates unchecked, with no Congressional oversight whatsoever. Treasury slips right into the Fed's back pocket, printing money out of thin air loaning more and more unsustainable debt into existence every day to the tune of about 120 BILLION dollars a month!! Minor point that all of this is 100% unconstitutional.

This is the 800 pound gorilla problem that is crippling our country and the Administration sits idly by (like all others before them) doing Jack Straw Shit.

End the Fed, return to a true free market, return the ability to regulate money to Congress where it is Constitutionally mandated, get Big Government the fuck out of our lives and state rule and our problems are all but solved.

We have in place the second greatest document ever written - the Constitution of the United States. Now let's work on getting the Idiocracy in DC to do their jobs and adhere to it's principles. Principles that I and many before me paid for with 30 (of my 47) years of service. My time was a debt paid with a measurable return on investment. Others paid that debt with a far higher cost.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Dare I ask about the "first"?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

My bad That would be God Bless the Dead And God Bless The U .S. of A

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

PM WT -

For me, the Bible. Maybe not for others. I am not qualified to and will not judge.

That's just how Mando rolls. If someone else rolls differently, I'm okay with that as long as we agree that each of us is entitled to their views and practices.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I figured, and absolutely cool with that. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't "Frog and Toad are Friends", which I think could make the top ten, but shouldn't be # 1.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

#3 is "Where The Wild Things Are" by Maurice Sendak
#4 is "Harold and the Purple Crayon" by Crockett Johnson
#5 is "Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel" by Virginia Lee Burton
#6 is "Are You My Mother" by P.D. Eastman

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Grendel: "Those guys" you are referring to are Tim Geitner and Bernancke. You are correct in pointing fingers at the causes of the current economic meltdown, but your missing the boat if you believe that our government wasn't complicit in the whole deal. Unfortunately while you and I and the rest of the world were looking for a place to stick our hardon, Tim Geitner and his cronies pulled off the biggest daylight heist in the history of the planet.

Real lefties bitch about NASA spending money to go into space, while we have starving children here at home. This is but a grain of sand compared to the shift of money and consolidation of power that happened right under our noses.

If you believe, like many do, that the distribution of wealth under our tax code and form of government is better for society at large than having wealth centralized among the few, then you just got fucked by the visionary that promised you change in 2008. The transfer of money and power that Geitner and his cronies just engineered put more in the hands of fewer than any tax code Ronald Reagan or George Bush could ever dream of.

By the way, I took the politico test and could not have been more centrist. Just a hair away from the centerpoint on the graph.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

EBP -

I graphed at .105, .21.

I guess that's the result of combining, fiscal uber-conservative, Constitutionalist, no fiat currency, End The Fed, Green, "I'd rather see a same sex couple (with all the rights afforded by 'marriag') adopt a child than abort the fetus" and I'll shoot yer ass if come into my house uninvited??????

I am not sure all of those above can coexist - but evidently they do.

Now where is my Big Chair?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ha! I knew you and Earl would score almost identically (and I predicted it right here before either of you took the test...I are good)...hmmm, was that just obvious, or am I deserving of some small award?

Crap. Guess it was obvious...well, I think the world of both of you, so it's good to know I gravitate toward friends with similar interests...not sure how Grendel scores, but would love to find out.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Forum Group Hug

You know, I just gotta say it, this forum, all you cretins and the ability to have these conversations is pretty freakin' cool.

You are all cordially invited to hunker down in my compound when the shit hits the fan.

Oh yeah, the music's not bad either.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Well of course it's good! Har, har...

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Well ,like they say, you know you ain't totally dead cluncked out yet ,when you can learn something new every day!

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Noise Collector on a hug group forum ??? a joke!!!

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

You, my brother, are obviously the recipient of a security clearance to high for the likes of us around these parts. I know that smell of military intel when the words compound and "shit hits the fan" are used in the same sentence.

Nevertheless, any port in a storm and if not in Mexico, I'll be looking for that cave dwelling in the Blue Ridge.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

EBP -

I'm pretty sure I've been up front about all that stuff.

Door's still open and I don't do national ID cards or RFID implants.

Hell, I told the command corpsman to eat shit and bark at the moon when he wanted to give me a swine flu shot.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

You know who is big business behind swin flu shots worldwide, mandojammer? War criminal Dick Cheney ,and his crew!And it's already known tamiflu is worthless against flu !!!

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

I'll bring the space cakes for anyone so inclined

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

If yer breaking out the Mando-malts I'll caulk the rowboat and start making my way over.

:-)

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Group hug forum ,here ? since when ?

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yup. I award thee this credenza. Wear it well.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Earl...

You have misread me if you think i'm any fan of Geitner or Bernanke. You are quite correct about their contributions to this mess, but the post I gave about the Wall St. yahoos who took advantage of their largess stands.

I am not for a Soviet style redistribution of anyone's income. I AM for sensible amounts of regulation (and how about the SEC doing its damn job???) so that the Foxes don;t get left guarding the henhouse.

p.s. Obama was never my first choice for Pres., only the lesser of the evils available.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I guess my point is that there's something much larger at work than the petty politics us mugs haggle over.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Something bigger makes sense, but right wingers almost also limit critiques to the center -- Obama/Clinton.

The left isn't really involved in actual policy because they haven't been in power.

When people skip over 8 years of Bush/Cheney and 12 of Reagan/Bush -- well it's a "tell" that any of Hunter's outlaws can spot.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Are you a Keith Olbermann Muppet or what?

The thread goes on forever and the party never ends.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

The Bailouts started before the Dems even took office,Granted since Obama took office it has been one clusterf*** after another . Don't think for a min that true Dems are happy w/ the current sit. This whole pile of econ crap was brought on by the previous admin, but if Obama doesn't truly change the course this country is headed to support him for another term would be ludicous.
To use a phrase coined by fellow Cavalry scouts who served w/ me in the Good ole 1st of 1st of the 1st ( 1st Sqrn 1st Calvary 1st Regiment of Dragoons We are Lima Lima Mike Foxtrot= Lost Like A M*****F******

God Bless the Dead and God Bless the Good ole Grateful Dead

Peace

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

Dude, you write some great posts, but you need to study history.

The clusterfuck (or 15 monkeys fucking a football) that is the impending economic collapse was not brought on by the Bush Administration.

It was brought on in 1913 when the Federal Reserve, the 'Creature From Jekyll Island' was signed in existence. The inevitability of the collapse was further entrenched by Bretton Woods in '46. And it was absolutely fated to occur in 1971 when the country came off the Gold Standard. The second the government signed over responsibility for managing the country's money supply total economic collapse and failure of our now fiat currency was guaranteed and etched in stone.

The problem knows no party affiliation - neither party did anything with the opportunities they had to right the ship and steer the correct course to navigate out of danger.

My country's - your country's - economy is at Flank Speed headed for an undersea mountain and we are going to hit it dead on.

The sad thing is the fucking mountain has been on the NAV charts since 1913 and WE THE PEOPLE have done nothing to demand our leaders change course.

So we are going to get what we deserve. Getcha popcorn ready because you are witness to what will likely be the single most cataclysmic world-wide event in history.

At least until Avian Flu mutates and spreads to humans via airborne pathogenic transport or an ELE asteroid hits our ass.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

No disagreement as far as the evils of the Fed and my History and dates not being my strong suit. However if memory serves me correctly at the time Clinton left office the country was looking at a 12 TRILLON dollar SURPLUS, I could see a huge tax cut at that point ,which Bush ran on and after elected was more than happy to obliged. Don't you think that would have been better spent with improvements in infastructure and healthcare than the huge corprate giveaway that occoured. Granted he sent money to the populace I think basically as a thank you for allowing him to steal the election. I received a whopping check for 20 dollars Thats no joke for real and as the other so called stimulas that occoured did nothing for me.Most of that was sucked up by 4.50 a gallon in gas (where is that now by the way) The fact that the right despise regulation so much makes me suspicious of their intent.
The meltdown occourred almost a year to the day today I know it all to well I'm still among the ranks of the unemployed. I knew electing Obama was not going to stop this freefall those who did have more hippie hopefullness than I, But electing Obama did prove the center and Left to be a force to fear. No more are the days when far right can cow us into electing individuals who use fear to guide this "free land"
The question is no longer what went wrong its who can fix it. My beleif is its broken beyond repair and I've got the popcorn ready for when it all goes down.

"...We'll be fighting in the street with our chilren at our feet and the morals that they worship will be gone..."
Pete Townshend

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

Your memory does not serve you correctly. Clinton claimed a $123 billion BUDGET surplus. But there was still an $18 TRILLION government debt.

You can have a budget surplus/deficit while you have a national debt.

Advertising and touting the positive of a budget surplus that is a fraction of the INTEREST on the National debt alone is like spraying perfume on a pile of steaming dog shit.

It still stinks.

Google Clinton surplus - there are many articles from both sides that use a whole lot of words to basically say the same thing. We had a budget surplus, but did nothing to reduce the national debt.

It's the $82 TRILLION dollar debt (including unobligated programs Social Security and MEDICARE) that is going to break the country's back.

We can't even make the interest payment on that debt load - the ugly truth is the country is insolvent and the nanosecond China stops purchasing our T Bills and our debt, the good ole USA goes bankrupt overnight. We will wake up the next day and the dollar will no longer be the World's reserve currency and will be worth zero.

The good news is, since no meaning ful change can occur without significant shock to a system, the looming collapse will mandate that we come up with a new system.

End the Fed, put money control back into the hands of Congress where the Constitution says that authority shall rest, back it with a for real, no-shit commodity like gold or silver, allow barter and free market rules to establish themselves and we are all better off.

Anyone bringing barley, copper coil and peat bog bricks to the compound gets head of the line privileges.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

Hey Mando--not my strong suit, but the only point of contention I would have with some of this (though by and large in agreement), is with the various means by which folks calculate "debt" these days (eg, when "trade" aspects are considered, etc.). It's a figure that can vary dramatically depending on one's assumptions.

But, something yet to be raised, and IMHO, the one issue that in some respects is the root "cause" of much of this is the simple dynamic of "standard of living" (ie, "ours") and the "decline of imperialism" (the "West") over the past century. Point being, with resouces acting as they do, and advancements in all measures of "standard of living" rising as they did (again, for us), in the absence of exploitation of the rest of the World's resources (including "labor"), we simply are being faced with the very real prospect of "paying the bill" for the free ride (no knock on the free market individualistic champions that took great risks in "mining" those resources in the early 1900s and so on). One can argue it is untenable to maintain the standard of living we do without the consequence of "have nots" (ie, Third World), given finite World resources, and population growth. The consequences of our advancements in resource use, and the contradictory "humanist" inclinations of many, including the "right" at times (ie, that all children deserve an education, that all illnesses should be cured, that war is bad, etc., etc., etc.) means we have to re-evalute how our own excesses are to be supported under the notion of everyone having a place in the Sun.

One can always hope for a technological "fix" as so often happened in the past, but otherwise, it's a major problem.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

at first look the idea of everyone having a place in the sun seems ok but on second looks ,quality of life become so degraded when too many people are already packer for a place in the sun,is it really a favor to force people to exist in such degraded situations ?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Thanx for the ecommics refresher, both sides of the political alignment are guilty of doublespeak.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Sorry hippie64, you only speak for yourself.

Many people know that Clinton didn't erase the national debt! But that article on 'The Myth of the Clinton Surplus' was decent.

Clinton never had the promise that Obama did, which was made worse by Clinton's own personal failure to avoid being drawn into a scandal by a low ranking agent in a stained dress.

What clever long range thinking went into that tactic!

The Demos had some good tricks in the 2006 elections with nicely timed exposure of Republican hypocrisy, but they just don't seem to have the will to claim ketchup as a vegetable.

Or maybe they don't want to have to apologize for Cheney shooting them in the face, kinda like Tom Ridge and Gonzalez lately -- or maybe they want to avoid a repeat of the domestic terrorist US Army-sourced anthrax attack on Congress and the Media as in 2001's discussion of the aptly named "Patriot" Act.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

To much cold barley soup clouds my thinking corrections Coulter Right of center, not left and Carlson not doorman on Rhoda that would CarlTON as far as his politic I don't know but Tucker Carlson Right of center My appolgies to the forum and CarlTon the doorman

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

First of all I try never to speak for anybody but myself, To make sure of that point I went back and reread this thread and only found one instance where I generalized "true Dems"but that was only to say by looking at Obamas falling poll numbers that dems are mostly in agreement that by failing on campaign promises is a sure fired way of having your ass replaced.
I realize that this may be one of those well placed baits that I have spoken of in a previous post but what the hell I'll bite.
I politely left the the thread thanking Mando for his economics lesson and intended to leave it at that and get back to this Main Ten but you know I'll finish my thought now.
I can goggle and Wiki all day and come up w/ conflicting explanations for just about anything, The Treasury graph I seen says Clinton paid down the natioal Debt in 98 and 99 is mine right and theirs wrong, couldn't venture a guess as far as the evils of the right left Bush, clinton, gore , Cheney, Gietner.Greenspan,Coulter, Carlson (Tucker not the doorman remember the show Rhoda) O'Reilly Hannity Limbaugh and any other pundit you care to name let your consceince be your guide.
Can we survive when the shit truly does rain down my guess is some will most wont to the truly blessed it wont matter.
I always thought of Ketchup as a condiment I know of no vegtabe that contians spices and distilled vinegar.
As you have all probaly gathered I'm a simple guy w/ a love for music and humanity that knows no boundries. Flawed you bet ya but I stand by my comments that Coulter Not left of center,Tucker carlson not left of center Bush= war criminal. Obama= poor Sob who means well but still not savy e3nough to counter the cabals already posistioned to drive the middle class into the streets like a starving third world country
I would love to see Cheney prosecuted as well Gonzales and the rest of them even Colin Powell who lied then came around during the 08 election to clear his consciece'
If you thought I was speaking for you or the Deadhead nation as a whole my appologies but nothing could be further from the truth

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

The site is right leaning but the article is accurate. Great explanation of public debt and intergovernmental debt.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-09-04 18:21:40

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Is this reasonable?

...Barack Obama is a shady, smooth-talking totalitarian communist who is on an unholy mission to strengthen the federal government by any means necessary to a deadly sharp edge at home while systematically weakening our military oversees.

His failed economic policies have destroyed this great country that we grew up in, and he will stop at nothing to blame America first for any problem anywhere in the world. Under his iron-fisted rule, the US will devolve into a Soviet-style, Nazi dictatorship that will enforce mandatory abortions on women, Koran classes on men, and euthanasia for old people.

After barely seven months in office, he is already the worst president this nation has ever had. He is certainly the most anti-American. Makes Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs.

http://tinyurl.com/npsd7r

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hey spaced - although you have stated it a bit more strongly than i would have - i find myself basically in agreement with you

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A little less hyperbole in the forum please

political-pictures-adolph-hitler-bush-obama.jpg

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A little less hyperbole in the forum please

I like that...

plus why does adolf get all of the play, no one ever gets compared to uncle joe or mousy tongue...well I see with obama, hitler is being used in order to push the national socialist = socialist line...just proves to me that we have one ignorant nation...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A little less hyperbole in the forum please

Poor Uncle Adolf is just misunderstood according to MSNBC's Pat Buchanan. Again.

http://tinyurl.com/lh9x48

Some say it was Churchill's fault because Britain already had an emnpire and wouldn't give Europe to Germany, or something!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A little less hyperbole in the forum please

from the same article:

"Barack Obama made one of the most infamous cabinet appointments of all time, choosing Norman Osborn (formerly the murderous and insane Green Goblin) as head of all global peacekeeping agencies, including the revered Avengers.

This version of Barack Obama has literally handed the reins of world peace and safety over to one of the most evil men on this or any other planet. Osborn has already clandestinely allied himself with Doctor Doom, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Loki the Norse God of Mischief, and the Criminal Syndicate Boss/Demon Sorcerer The Hood in an attempt to cement his power base and further extend his villainous tentacles into every corner of the Marvel Universe.

Meanwhile, his agents are hunting down heroes like Tony Stark (Iron Man) and even Captain America, the very symbol of American power. And all with the Marvel Universe Obama’s tacit approval. Makes Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers look like kindergartners."

http://tinyurl.com/npsd7r

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-09-04 22:14:01

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"Wall Street oversight??? Corporate greed??? "

Yes. They own you, and the game is rigged. And to deny the Reagan-Bush-Cheney role is willful ignorance and a betrayal to the soul of the one who denies. Maybe the gradual boil that siphoned off profits from all major industries fools people.

The hand waving over al Qaida, which isn't even anywhere, surely had a role in promoting fear and dull thinking. Oligarchs shouldn't be making the laws and rules of the markets. That's a simple concept really.

But sure The FED is part of that problem, and it appears that Obama sold out to the Clinton wing. Or maybe he doesn't want to be a dead prez, fed to the dogs by the right wing of the Democrats.

I hope there aren't many people who believe Texas doctor Ron Paul and the Austrian school economists. Complete privatization of an illusion. But freezing out both Ralph Nader and Ron Paul from the debates meant that hard questions would be ignored.

To quote the movie 'Network':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk

Arthur Jensen: [bellowing] You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU...WILL...ATONE!

Arthur Jensen: [calmly] Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those *are* the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that . . . perfect world . . . in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Hey SF--would love to see where you come out on BD's little poll...hmmm, this is getting habit forming!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yeah I should try out the poll.

Hey, uhh, who's got that gold?

Fort Knox? Or is the US dead ass on the side of the road?

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -3.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Welcome aboard...although you end up appearing a bit more authoritative than I imagined...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 3, 2009 11:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Oh yes, and thanks to the gang that couldn't shoot straight (2001-2009), your communications are being recorded.

But hey, despite the "lost" RNC/WH e-mail, we at least know where to go get info for warrants on that gang.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 3, 2009 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

deadheadmonte,you are the most intelligent on this forum ! Always have something nice to show, tell,explain,encourage! I allways spoke true in life but it brought me many hassles ,resentments,outright hatred,most people do not tolerate mind different much of their own !

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Poster: Edsel Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Nice quote, learned his lines well, too bad he is still clueless.

Took the test, can up in the quadrant with no one in it.....figures. + 1.61 - 1.12

This post was modified by Edsel on 2009-09-05 00:32:24

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 3, 2009 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

thanks again,deadheadmonty !your choices always a blast ! Cheney /obama ,=bad news ,gignolos!

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 3, 2009 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I also did this political test and it says I am situated same as between Mandala and dalai-lama but i am not so convinced about that!

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Poster: shiphappens Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I have some very close friends that are both Democrats and Republicans, Deadheads all. The Republicans in our circle, as am I, are social liberals and fiscal conservatives.
I think Phils comments regarding conservatives during the interview where flippant, but, that was not exactly the kind of interview that was seeking complicated answers to simple questions. There is no perfect fit in politics. If you fully undersand the agendas on both sides then you will be jaded. Name calling and parroting party rhetoric is not productive, nor is it conducive to understanding and discourse. It's great that you may be so emotionally vested in a given politcal issue, but if you can't offer facts to back up your regurgitad party blather, what is the point, you don't understand the issue unless you know the facts of both sides. Don't be a sheep. I may disagree strongly with Obama's fiscal policy but that does not make a me a racist or a hater. One thing for sure and that is that most Deadheads that I have met over the years come from a higher income demographic, smarter then the average bear, and are college grads.
"There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle" Alexis de Tocqueville
Fortunatly, the music rises above petty politics. One party can't claim it, that would be naive. Well, gotta run, I have 30 employees with mortgages and families counting on my decision making skills to keep this company afloat for another week.

BTW, the Ratdog show in Denver last week was rockin.....

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 3, 2009 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Now who's being a snob, I'm neither a colledge grad or from a higher income bracket. I love the Grateful Dead because the music gives me joy.
I'm a bluedog from a red state my politics have nothing to do about w/ the music.
Phil was asked a question and he anwsered it. I responded to the thread because I think that question misrepresented the politics of Coulter and Carlson. My opinion and like most of my opinions there not open for debate,

"...Wake up to find that you are the eyes of the world, the heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own.."

As an old fisherman I know all to well about a well presented bait. It is almost always to tempting to resist and like that fish once your hooked your going to fight like hell to its conclusion. I claim a political persuasion because it suits my ideals not because of my education or demographic the same reasons can be said for my love of the Grateful Dead

Peace to all

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Poster: shiphappens Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Well spoken, but I don't think the use of the word snob is appropriate in this context.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I would agree though with SH as to the "smarter than the ave bear" notion...you don't have to get that in school of course, but the overall implication remains, I think. Street, self or school, education is a part of what I was babbling on about above (unexamined life ain't worth living, etc.).

Now, I would say that by choice (or not, depending on your view of Free Will and such), there are many HEADs that have not been as successful on the fiscal front as the descriptions above might imply...of course, only some of those even have access to the $ and thus the technology to be here chatting with us (so this Forum, by defn, limits us to the group we have been describing above, to a degree). In a way, my point is proved by the group that though at the low end of the economic continuum have somehow gained access to join us here by their smarts so to speak.

But, I do think that as a group, spanning the ranges on both fiscal fronts, lib-->con, etc., etc., etc., does speak to both the commonalities I spoke of above, as did others, AND the great variation in any number of other attributes we do NOT necessarily share.

Probably more variation amongst us than most any other group along these lines...

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 3, 2009 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Thats why I love the Gratful Dead Family as beatiful and smart creative as any disfuntional family can be.Its not for me to say what anybody should believe,
Its funny how humans can be so sensetive about their politics especially in times of war and such. Still smarting a little bit I guess for cleaning out a good portion of my 401k to buy this cpu just so I could join the digital age.
From the moment I listened to American Beauty I been mesmerized by this entity which is The Grateful Dead it transends everything for me happiness sorrow and the like.
This whole thread tyes into the deadhaed demograghic one from last nite that I followed but didnt comment on.
How you raise your children is reflective of how you were brought up, I was the rebel.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ah, yes "social libs/fiscal conser" is a good descriptor.

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Poster: shiphappens Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

It's the only one I have for my bi polar political positions. I have nothing but disdain for most politicians, but just a few Deadheads. Peace, out.

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Sep 3, 2009 5:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I'm listenin to Miss Divine's birthday show. I vote Eugene V Debs.

This post was modified by deyzof49 on 2009-09-03 12:48:28

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Poster: abilene22 Date: Sep 3, 2009 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Hey BD, thanks for posting the link to the ‘political compass’ test. Turns out my politics are nearly dead-center (slightly libertarian, slightly right).

Must say that when I read Phil’s response yesterday I was somewhat peeved, for it seemed like a bit of leftist snobbery directed at conservative folks. Then I realized that it’s just Phil, and by gosh he’s staying true to his liberal roots. That’s okay by me.

I once thought the same way as Phil, but the older I get, the more conservative (and cynical) I become. Probably true for many folks. The oft-quoted adage “if you’re not a liberal at twenty you have no heart; if not a conservative at forty you have no brain” rings true. The leftist ideals that I once espoused now seem somewhat archaic and misguided, though still entirely noble ideals nonetheless.

No right-wing nut here, but I’ve seen my future: Sitting on the front porch in my rocker, shotgun on my lap. I got mine; now you get yours (and leave me alone).

Grumpy old fart, eh?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think that Earl has hit on the essence of the evolution for many of us that grew up in the 60s/70s (again, going with the assumption that many of us are 45-55).

Cynics and realists abound as we have seen the many failures of our political system. Sure, it still beats virtually all the alternatives, but we have become disappointed and hardened by one scandal after another. And, of course, the old adage that with family and age comes a modicum of "conservatism", esp with respect to fiscal matters, is a natural progression.

However, I would say that many retain some of what we might associate with the tenets of DEADISM (though those should be more clearly articulated...do we all agree on what those are???). EG, certainly all of us question authority ("...if you got nothing new to say..."); all of us imagine that those with a cause need careful scrutiny ("...I see you have your fist out..."), and any other examples of "enlightened social beings" that recognize the unexamined life ain't worth living.

In my view, self examination, questioning the status quo, and so forth, are important essentials of DEADism, and most all of us hereabouts espouse these important life values.

Now, it's another thing entirely to examine what personal CONCLUSIONS we each draw from these examinations. Point being, Gendel and I, versus (just for example! no offense guys!) Earl and Mando on some issue such as "welfare", might have decided on very different perspectives as to its utility, BUT all four of us have come to these two different positions via careful consideration of both the social justice of the matter, the fatally flawed status quo, etc., etc., etc.

So, I for one find that when you skim off the wacking trolling/agitation/etc arguments here at the Forum, in spite of our many differences, we in general have some very important approaches to getting by in this World that unite us more than they divide...

Somebody though should list what the 10 essential tenets of DEADISM really are...

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"Somebody though should list what the 10 essential tenets of DEADISM really are... "

No! I hate it when people try to tell me what a "true Deadhead" is or what it means. Here's an old test for fun:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

There's an old thread where the wordsmith and I come out on the other side of rasta and earl - two folks' posts I've almost always enjoyed.

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Poster: boltman Date: Sep 5, 2009 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Didn't think to note my "score", but came out libertarian right (quadrant four).

I don't believe there is a political value associated with the Dead. I came out of SF in the 60's and have a certain life view that is reflective of that, but my life experiences have certainly contributed to my values more than the music has. Religious beliefs, in my case Christian, have shaped my viewpoints as well. Music, and the Grateful Dead's music, is an integral part of my everyday experience. I have worked in public education for the last 25 years and I believe those early convictions that are anchored in GDness led me into that career choice. Now I run two K-12 public charter schools in So Cal. Damn, what an inane ramble!

The point that I started with and I believe Tell made earlier is, that a basic mistrust of authority may be the only "political statement" one can derive from the Dead. I think that probably transcends political party. If nothing else, you can always dislike the party in power and that seems to change frequently enough to provide you with anti-authoritarian feelings. The latest Deadheads for Obama aside, I never got the sense that the band itself really had a political bent.

Having read the posts however, I can see that the forumites do.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

My scores were -4.5 or so on both axes...

In case anyone wants to know...

Yes, as you all thought, I AM Gandhi!

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Poster: user unknown Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Hmmm...that makes YOU, you UU, and then Rob & Hippie...interesting.

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

how does it feel to be compared to a prince-elector of the holy roman empire and gandhi in the same week!?!

maybe you are prime minister material...though those might be the highlights I am sure there is some negative troll-speak in which I missed...

of course that is outside of the comments relating to not listening to enough brent and vince...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Hey v--can guess where you come out (thinking "center, toward me" no offense meant!), but have to ask cause I must have missed it: there was a Pope ref?

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

that was interesting...thanks bluedevil...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82

maybe it should be done three times and the average used...I will take it one more time since I meant to copy the last page...

so I would like to have done this on 5 or 10 year intervals from high school on...seeing how I have changed from my Rockefeller Heinz Eastern Republican upbringing through the dark years in north tejas to my current time in san francisco...

anyway, I will start doing it going forward...

---

no pope reference that I recall, there was just the talk of you leading the holy roman empire...

so I thought they meant you were one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

or it could have been this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Emperor


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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

Oh, well in that case, you're right there with the rest of us: Rob, Hippie, UU, and you...

Cool.

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

you would like what I am listening to:

Cream
1967-11-14
Stockholm, Sweden

01 Introduction
02 Tales Of Brave Ulysses
03 Sunshine Of Your Love
04 Sleepy Time Time
05 Stepping Out
06 Train Time
07 Toad
08 I'm So Glad

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Tell = Gandhi

as was mine but unfotunatly I love to eat so a hunger strike strike is out of the question

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Thought I'd try it again to see if there had been any shift.

Last time:
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67

This time:
Economic Left/Right: -5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.13

Looks like I'd better try harder to curb the latent fascist authoritarian tendencies that are obviously bubbling just under the surface of my crumbling social egalitarian facade...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I knew it! I knew it!

Glad to be aboard your finely double negative ship my friend! I think we will be welcoming a few others aboard soon...if they take the test...

Hmmm, the fluctuation in scores is interesting--age related of course, but anything specific you recall?

Flip flopper?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think the difference between the two scores is a result of me sitting on the fence a little more, i.e. just agreeing or disagreeing and not *strongly* agreeing or disagreeing. Colour me wishy washy.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Hey Rob--exactly! I saw that aspect as I was taking it...nonetheless, at least we score significantly "below" Dire...hmmm, oh well, in this case, it's a good thing!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

dont worry - my scores were even more "fence sitting" than yours.


(astonishing, i must say)

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 3, 2009 7:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

i must have missed that old test. was cool - thanks for the link.

i ended up basically a bit to the left on the economic scale and just a touch up toward authoritarian. hmmmmm

however, basically a fencesitter as far as i could read - lol.


personally, i generally tend toward an Emersonian and Thoreauvian view of life and how to live it. They were basically the "first" american deadheads (who published/spoke much anyways) (obviously English Romanticists being some of the first "deadhead" ideologists since some of the ancient roman writers.

now i am going back to read some Palahniuk and enjoy the fine degradation and monopolization of privacy and life prevalent in this fine country. (at least he makes is somewhat "funny")

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Does that mean you are STALIN?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

if my girls are asked, you may just get an answer in the affirmative


(me? I tend to see Ghandi when I look in the mirror)

;)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Wait a minute...You're looking at ME!?!

I scored a perfect Gandhi!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

sweet god!! that explains how I scare the bejeezus out of myself when i wake up in the morning

:-P

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yep, I was gonna pick you and me, or you and Rob, or me and Rob...really bizarre that you mentioned it!!!

And, Rasta was DEFN one I would have included as well...

See? That proves my thesis...

And, agree completely about the listing phenomenon. I take the great view that "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it!".

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I think there's two distinct elements of the notion of Deadisms. First is the music and how it speaks to us individually and perhaps universally. No question that it speaks to us, and for most, does it better than any other music ever made. For those outside the circle, we are stereotyped as a bunch of throwbacks. The truth is that what we most gravitate towards is the timeless qualities of this distinctly American music.

Unlike any form of guide to life and living, probably what the music speaks to best is the notion or essence of free will. Free will is not only American in it's constitutional origins, but the burden of our endowment from God. Jack Straw gives light to it by examining moral relativism in the line "took his rings, four bucks in change, ain't that heaven sent." The whole story, a simple Cowboy song, gives rise to examining our endowed free will and the consequences of shouldering that burden.

Time and time again these simple stories have choice and consequence as a theme, and where's there's choice, there's freedom. Choose wisely and perhaps there will be reward, choose the other way at your own peril. Ultimately freedom has no party, no liberal or conservative bent.

Second is a cultural freedom, which in the days that folks like Tell & myself were forging our own ideologies, was considered anarchy among both the left and the right. Our cultural statements in the 60's and early seventies were a radical departure from the do-right 50's. Seen as a threat to stalwart institutions such as church and government.

Ultimately a lot of the culture was absorbed into the mainstream as were the proponents of change. Individualism became the accepted norm. Long hair for men, blue jeans, cohabitation, pre-marital sex, rock and roll, once a sure trip to hell, now acceptable behavior. That also meant that we as individuals became accepted into society at large.

Once we accepted the fact that our generation wasn't going to change the world in a larger sense, and the world gave up on changing us, it was game over. Sucking in the seventies. Keep your head, but toil for your bread.

But the original seed of that individuality remains, the societal and biblical notion of live and let live. The real belief in the words "the pursuit of happiness." The rights of our brothers and sisters to privacy and protection from undue government intervention in our lives.

In the end, the core of our Deadism is about free choice and freedom from intervention into our lives. Both fundamentally conservative in nature as both biblical and constitutional. Our arguments and liberal vs. conservative political banter is really semantics as to how our government and their behavior effect these ideals.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Good expansion, Mr Earl. Nice.

And shiphappens: the "fiscal conservative, liberal whatchamacallit" is a nice term...you'd think I'd recall it better!

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Sep 3, 2009 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Nicely said

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: There are FOUR Forum Boats...

So, it was probably obvious, but, hippie, veblen, UU, Rob, spaceface, grendel (trust me) and I ended up in the same one (ie, lg neg scores in both domains...BD's test above).

Hmmm....interesting ride. Er, sail.

Is that a leak???

Well, which one of us is going to fix it?

Can't we get someone to do that for us?

This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-09-05 02:01:49

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Poster: veblen Date: Sep 3, 2009 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"NOTE: please don't make this a flame war about politics."

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...thank you for making my day!!!

now if a simple thread on a person's location can turn into a flamefest what do you think is going to happen to this one...

well maybe it is like drinking: sometimes when you have plans to go out and get trashed you come home sober and other times you can go out to have a few you and come home trashed...

btw: not laughing at you since I tried the note approach more than once myself.

This post was modified by veblen on 2009-09-03 15:20:22

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Poster: Sedula Date: Sep 3, 2009 11:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I USED to be a Democrat until they went insane after 9/11 and actually routed for this country to lose a war. Whether you agreed with th war or not, that was unexceptable. I became conservative after that and am now an independent conservative. Less Gov't, less taxes, more freedom. I would never vote Democrat again. But I have seen 200+ Deadshows and don't care about their politics. I just don't want to hear about any musicians politics, right or left. Just play music and shut up. If you want to talk politics run for office instead!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"I USED to be a Democrat until they went insane after 9/11 and actually routed for this country to lose a war. Whether you agreed with th war or not, that was unexceptable."


That's just not true. "They" did not route for the country to lose a war but for US to end an unjust war.

The sad fact is that the citizens of the US are the biggest losers in this case in terms of cash, prestige, and karma.

An unjust war is what is unacceptable. Actual traditionalists do not support immoral phony wars. Never have and never will.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2009-09-05 00:46:25

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 1:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

That's fine if you think Dems "rooted" for the US to lose in Iraq, tho' I totally disagree. The Dems who were against the war from the start (and there weren't many) had every reason to voice their disgust at what happened.

BTW, that war is not over and the repurcussions will be felt for the next 50 years. It was a disaster to get into in the first place and depending on what you believe about why, it was either a) a gargantuan mistake based on faulty info (WMDs that did not exist) and hastily decided (UN weapons inspectors begged Bush and Co. to hold off on an invasion b/c they COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING or b) a calculated, cynical, arrogantly planned invasion using 9/11 and the country's understandanle paranoia over radical Islam as an excuse to knock over a small nation sitting on a ton of oil run by a dictator no one would miss anyway. Great plan, except it's completely antithetic to real American values of honesty, integrity, and democracy that so many hard right ideologues always love to lay claim to, and it's still costing this country billions of dollars a month....Oh, and thousands of people died and continue to. That too.

Given those conditions, and the fact that we still have well over 100,000 troops in Iraq who can't realistically leave w/out the country going to total shit (just b/c they're not in Baghdad anymore doesn't mean they're not there) it is not fair to say that Dems (or anyone else who criticized the war) were rooting against US troops. Everyone supports the troops...it's the sons of bitches who sent them there (and I am including all Dems who rolled over and voted for the war in Congress) who deserve our contempt and blame.

Finally, I do not understand why musicians have no right to voice their political opinions just b/c their day job is making music. Should Bob Dylan have shut his mouth when he was writing some of the best civil rights-era songs ever made in the early 60's? Should music just be bubble gum pop nonsense (or in the Dead's case only songs about whiskey, women, and dancing in the sunshine? (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I get just as annoyed as you when I hear pop stars say something stupid about politics (Britteny Spears just prior to the invasion of Iraq in 2003: "I just think the President knows what's best and we should do what he says") but they are still American citizens and still have 1st ammendment rights to speak their minds (such as they are.)

I respect the conservative Deadheads on this forum who disagree w/me politically as long as they voice their opinions w/thoughtfulness and respect--and most do. Others (and this can be equally true of Liberals as well) are of the "FIXed News" (great wordplay, btw, I hadn't seen that before) camp and simply hard wired to despise someone of a different philosophical bent no matter what and will not listen to any opinion that dissents from their political handbook.

I don't quite get that except that folks who are so cemented in their thoughts that thet can't even be swayed by facts that counter their aguments clearly don't have to do the hard thinking that is inherent in achieving any meaningful political understanding or solution and sleep better at night "knowing" they are "right."

But hey, just my 2 cents. Bottom line is, as I've said many a time before, the fact that we all love the music of the Grateful Dead binds us in some fundamental way, whatever our other differences may be.

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I do not have a problem with politically charged songs, rather my distain comes in the form of people (usually actors) that feel it neccessary to give their political views (unsolicited) in any given situation just because someone shoves a camera in their face. As for musicians, if I pay to go to your show I do not wish to be subjected to your political views onstage. This is were the "I pay you to play" scenario comes in.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Fair enough about the actors, but sometimes their opinions ARE solicited (I have no idea why anyone cares what Sean Penn thinks about foreign policy but interviewers often ask him--probably to elicit a provocative response, which then gives Bill O'Reilly something to yell about for his six figure salary.)

But if they;re asked the question, they have a right to their opinions. And these days it's not just liberal actors weighing in...we have to listen to Jon Voigt's right wing rants, Chuck Norris', Robert Duvall's, and scores of others.

As long as your disdain for the messenger is bipartisan I accept that view, altho' it's in the end just annoying...most of those people (i.e. Curt Schilling saying he might run for Ted Kennedy's seat) are full of hot air and horse shit anyway and don't actually influence real policy (at least I hope not.)

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Agreed Grendel. Solicited comments ARE O.K. with me. You do have a point in the fact that if you don't want to hear it from one side....I don't want to hear it from the other. I agree with that. I think the Bill O Reilly comment was somewhat out of line. The same could be said about Kieth Olberman and his son Rachael Maddow. Let's face it, both sides of the "commentators" are entertainers....not journalist.

I like the fact that we can have a calm discussion about this and not bash each other. If we had more interaction like this in the government realm, then maybe we could all work together and get something done.

HERE'S TO THE ARCHIVE! (glass raised with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale)

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Damn, i LOVE Sierra Nevada! You just named one of my favorite all time beers!! Are you SURE you're a conservative? ;-)

Kudos to all you said...I always welcome respectful differences of opinion and I couldn't agree more that Olberman and Co. are just as guilty as Hannity and such for masquerading as journalists when all they're really doing is spewing a well-planned invective for enterianment purposes and most of all... ratings.

Those who can forumlate their own opinion rather than just parroting back what others tell them are A-OK in my book.

thanks for the exchange...and long live Sierra Nevada!

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

My true hope is that we get a third party in this to divide all the BS. That and that cold weather comes soon for the enjoyment of Sierra Nevada Porter!

Great giva and take with the postings.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"I couldn't agree more that Olberman and Co. are just as guilty as Hannity and such for masquerading as journalists when all they're really doing is spewing a well-planned invective for enterianment purposes and most of all... ratings."

I usually agree with everything grendelschoice but Olberman and his son Rachael don't masquerade as journalists, esp the sportcaster Olberman.

The difference between them and Fixed & friends is that Olberman's team actually tells the truth and backs it up with facts and videotape!

Fox News, like the big fat liar himself, can't and won't resort to facts, and instead manipulates the emotions of the weak minded. Death panel lies, "Don't meddle with our patriotic music" and on and on.

Glen Beck is barely holding on to sanity.

The whole thing is just sad. It's like the high school English books by Huxley and Orwell are literally true!

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

All I have to say to that is....I respect your opinion and right to make it. Thank God that we live in a country where we can all speak what is in our hearts. And on the positive side is that you don't have to be out of earshot to say it!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

spaced--

i think at the beginning what you say about Keith may have been true...but I noticed as his show became more popular and it was clear it was b/c he was calling out O'Reilley for his lies (admirable) it then resorted to hyperbole to keep the momentum going.

There were a number of instances I can recall in which Olbermann started to go out of his way to defend certain failings of Obama's re: un-kept promises from the campaign Obama vs. president Obama and it was sad to see the same kind of stretching of the truth to defend msnbc's chosen favorite, rather than calling him out.

For my money the very best news to watch (and this says a lot about the state of cable/network news today) is Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. His team scours every videotape from weeks before to years prior to point out clear hypocrisies of both the left and right and presents them in clear ways that are undisputable to anyone with an objective mind (plus they;re funny as hell.)

My favorite recently was when he showed a clip of O'Reilly saying "Here at Fox we don't call the tea party or health care town meeting protesters 'loons' like other networks do...we recognize their right to protest"....then he showed a clip from 2004 of people protesting the Iraq War in which O'Reilly says "These people are clearly loons."

So yes, I understand that the FIXed news empire is a dangerous beast--my concern is that I don't want Olbermann and others to BECOME a left-leaninbg version of the same and can't give him a pass just b/c I happen to agree w/his political philosophy.

It's the same reason I was outraged at liberals who made signs of Bush w/a Hitler moustache. That kind of hyperbole (much as I despise Bush) is actually incredibly disrespectful to the millions who perished under Hitler's Holocaust and diminishes the extreme evil that was the Nazi regime. It also hurts the credibility of more reasonable and thoughtful people on the left.

The idiots who call Obama "Hitler" and a "fascist" are even more out of whack, but the principle remains the same. Just as I reject torture of prisoners held by the US b/c I don't want our country to be as evil as those who resort to terror, I don't want to use the more deplorable tactics of the hard right to "fight fire with fire" if you know what I mean.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"So yes, I understand that the FIXed news empire is a dangerous beast--my concern is that I don't want Olbermann and others to BECOME a left-leaninbg version of the same and can't give him a pass just b/c I happen to agree w/his political philosophy."

Yeah no passes for being a Democrat.

Both Stewart and Colbert are quite funny and informative.

Lately Olbermann and Maddow have both been openly sarcastic and questioning of Obama/Emmanuel/Clinton policies.

They've questioned why Obama lacks leadership and why he's backed out on campaign promises to please a few conservatives, even pointing out that he's in danger of losing support for a 2nd term.


"It's the same reason I was outraged at liberals who made signs of Bush w/a Hitler moustache."

Me not so much. Bush/Cheney didn't AIM HIGH, even for "friends." The unaccountability and laxity putting oil and vacations above all else, let a serious hole in defense. So serious in fact that you have to wonder how bin Laden got intel on which day US air defenses were standing down for exercises. Amazingly the Bush/Cheney-oriented Project for a New American Century got just what it wanted -- a new Pearl Harbor by hook or by crook.

Then the closely following, the Patriot Act, a US Army-sourced anthrax attack on the opposition, lies on weapons of mass destruction, etc. Those weapons were more likely to be found under Bush's podium than Iraq after how many years of UN-US inspection and espionage.

All in all, the neocon power play for "full spectrum dominance" over the whole world was a costly move that failed miserably.

ok so I like 1985 and not just for The Beam space, it's back to Black Peter> Ashes, Ashes on
http://www.archive.org/details/gd85-09-12.sbd.barbella.11803.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ok now I'm talking to myself...

The odd thing is that there are so many smart people and even more people with goodwill. Hell, the US is on top of the world having nearly invented the modern world, and yet going to waste. And at a time when the species as a whole is facing enormous challenges!

He did pick JP Holdren great and Van Jones is fine in a minor role, but why Obama wouldn't pick economic advisors like Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman, or ones listed by Huffington Post recently as ones who saw it coming is beyond me. HP: http://tinyurl.com/lvy3r8

Did Bush and Cheney invite environmentalists of any kind to oil policy planning meetings? Hardly, and that was before they could really scare people.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ya know I gotta pick up on this again cause as far as I'm cocerned your preaching to the choir I agree w/ everything you said about Olbermann and Rachael. I was loyal to the point when Keith and Rachael told the truth about issues, the war and the decisions that led to those two conflicts. If Fixed News is going to be provocative and inflamatory with partisan rethoric then by all means lets have MSNBC cloud the issues for the right. They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left. Its a wonder any working stiff ,self employed, armed service memeber ( ...we're all confused...) to wonder what the hell is going on in that Sodom and Gomorrah we call our nations capital

...You can call this song the United States Blues...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"lets have MSNBC cloud the issues for the right. They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left."

Telling the truth clarifies not clouds!

That's not something you can back up with facts. MSNBC is not a leftist outfit. 2 shows that counter RNC/Fox talking points with truthful facts that can fit in short segments is in no "pulling" the country hard to the left.

That's totally ridiculous, although they and Stewart and Colbert have some influence on the younger crowd.

I dare you to take issue with any specific facts on the Olberman or Maddow show -- you'll only catch small things. You'll have to go to Fox for The Big Lie and to ABC, NBC, and CBS (and the NYT and WPost) for slick spins.

Yes, summertime has come and gone, my oh my. I got mine and you got yours, but US we can't seem to keep our hands off other's stash.

We have no excuse for our karma because we know these words to all these songs by heart! We ignore them at our peril. If it's said, look out the saints are comin' through, and men gonna light my way. Who is ME?

Even the messiah doesn't have a messiah complex.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 12:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I'll be on vacation soon, so the noise level will be better for a some weeks!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 5, 2009 5:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

spaced--

before you go on vaca, just know I enjoy having someone on this forum who's even to the left of ME. I didn't think that was possible ;-)

I don't take issue w/most of what you said, and as I've said many times before here, the disastrous realm of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Rove years will have repurcussions for years and years to come. Obama inherets a bigger pile of crap than you could fit in a Rhino and the hard right acts as if it all cropped up in the last 6 months.

Still...I draw the line at the Hitler=Bush crowd. We make such false comparisons at our peril. We cannot ignore the history of what really happened under the Nazis. last time I checked Bush and Cheney weren't rounding up millions and sticking them into ovens and gas chambers (detention centers in Cuba without formal charges, yes...and commiting acts of torture that the U.S. once prosecuted the Japanese for doing in WWII...yes...and that's horrible....but it still does not rise to the level of Hitler.)

There are degrees of evil in the world. Hitler's was intentional and with clear intent to eliminate an entire population of people. Bush and Cheney's was born more of hubris and ignorance and fear. Big difference, and we need to recognize it.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 6, 2009 5:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Grandelchoice: ask australian journalist Jane Burgermeister if she thinks Obama/cheney not worse than hitler soon! jmburgermeister@gmail.com

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 4:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yes, I agree. WWII was a massive disaster. More devastating than the Mongols?

I'm always wary of defensive reactions against the use of Hitler and the Holocaust. There were many more people effected than one ethnic group, many of which have used the disaster for personal and propaganda gains. See http://tinyurl.com/m2lt2r.

It's a nasty world on one level, even in Biblical history where the Jews themselves committed similar holocausts.

Of course, you right despite their sympathies with Hitler, the right wing here have not done those things lately -- umm mass genocide and chattel slavery are kinda Nazi, nest pas? Though they have sponsored similar things or allied themselves with perps across the world for decades. I guess I should feel blessed I haven't had to face that sort of thing myself.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Amen

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 4:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"MSNBC They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left."

Bull....

Didn't get the lickin's that the other ones had?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPankJ0TytY

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 6, 2009 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvfq4dZOTNs

I got to see the Pretenders as opening acts 2 times, for The Who in 1980 or so and for U2 in 1987.

It's great that Rush Limbagh is also an animal right's wacko and supports PETA.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 6, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-7Mp41E5sw
I can dig it SF seen the who in 82 at the Silverdome and in 89 at old cleve muni stad,my u2 show in 85 at frankfurt germ. did'nt turn out to well was my first time in a jail and the fact it being german made the exp. all the more hideous. I figuured limbaugh to be the type to step on little puppies heads maybe only black ones,
you may have misunderstood my intent regarding MSNBC Ive been a loyal veiwer of Countdown since its beginning in 2000 and have no intention of changing my veiwing habits any time soon, just getting burnt on trying to always carry the water for the Dems w/ my family and everyother member of the lunatic fringe that wants to exspouse their veiws my way Now this huge uproar about Barack talking to students as if thats never been done before oy Blue has always been my fav color and Pete T. always my fav artist none of that will ever change. Dig this vid if you can peace















































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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 6, 2009 10:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Chrissie Hynde makes Rush Limbaugh pay

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5923659/really_randoms_chrissie_hynde_ricky_martin_jimmy_page

BTW, while I like Olberman I do prefer to record the program, and just watch the 3rd of it that has actual news and analysis. A DVR also make for quicker work with The Daily Show and Colbert.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Well, I hope you realize that we have tallied up the scores and you are right there with me, Rob, UU, and vebl. Hope you like the company--I think having a handful of Gandhis around is a good thing.

Have a great Labor Day weekend, Hipster!

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Im just finishing up my 992nd brew on Sierra Nevada's original 17 barrel brewhouse. They want it back for their museum, but, sorry guys, were still using it;)

"Homer no work beer well without"

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Grendel--I just have to ask you to take the test...hoping you will and let us know.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

what is this test you speak of? Do i have to attach electrodes anywhere?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

In BD's post up above! It's the one about "your political compass" etc.

Don't even bother...I am putting you down for "Gandhi" if you don't mind!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Go right ahead, but I'd be seriously ashamed to even pretend to come close to such exalted company, even if we're just talking philosophy.

seriously, Ghandi to me is the greatest of the great men of our time.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

You and me both...I was just amazed the absurd little test confirmed it for me! I rest easier tonight.

Have a good one!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

this has to be the longest thread not specifically involving skies that i have seen in quite some time




This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2009-09-05 05:00:25

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 7:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

Yep, I agree...I think we covered everything, and more importantly learned quite abit about each other. Now, I am not sure how many Gandhis you all can stand around here, and I am not sure how much we can get down (ie, spaced, Grendel, vebl, hippie, and UU) but I think of it this way: instead only having one man for a job (ie, particular issue in need of a hunger strike), we now have "multiple Gandhis" that we can farm out to solve every single problem the World faces!

Like hippie (I think?) said, though, I prefer to be the one at the sit in on the railroad tracks rather than the one on a hunger strike (though the wife maintains I could use a bit of the latter).

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Poster: billydlions Date: Sep 5, 2009 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

Well it's a good thing we have a few right wing fascists around here like me to balance out all you do-gooders. And to think there USED to be a wolf around these parts.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

Well BD#2, don't forget, he scored toward the "Stalin" end of the grid...hmmm, I wonder if real wolves would do likewise?

Lets see, one female runs the pack ("Stalinesah"?) rather than a more democratic system--check! Alpha dogs eat first--check! Alpha dogs have sex, while others go without--check!

Maybe the dog eat dog world fits the grid nicely! Dire seems to be right where he should be...and trust that I am more than okay with knowing you lie somewhere to the right of all of us Gandhis! When the shit hits the fan, we're gonna need all kinds, right?

Hope you're off to a great Labor Day weekend B!

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Poster: billydlions Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

And in reality, I scored as close to the middle as you can get. I think I was .25, 1.5, or maybe that's reversed. I'm guessing you feel the same way about labor day weekend as I do, which is Thank God summer is over! Still 90 degrees and humid in FL, but in 1 month we are golden.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

Absofuckinglootly!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Sep 5, 2009 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

freakin ASPCA neutered me :(

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: News Flash: Forumites solve World Hunger!

Damn! Sounds like the forebearers of the dreaded Death Squads! At least they put your balls in a jar to take home...right? What?! They were used as olives at that Forum party a while back? No wonder Rob looked especially green that night...

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Poster: daffaela Date: Nov 15, 2013 11:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I second that emotion

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Poster: sdbrownarchive Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I love this thread. I was blessed to see close to 60 shows and still listen to dead shows almost everyday thanks to this site.

I'm a nature loving, pro life, Christ following, music loving, hard working, conservative deadhead(not in any particular order). I think the problem is that we've become too focused on which way we lean politically and not focused on what each individual can bring to the table to serve this country best. We've made(or the media) politics a sport where it must have 2 sides and a winner and a loser. I think we need to scrap the group thats in congress now, enact term limits and have "real" working people serve in govt. for 2 years then go back to their "real" life. Kind of like jury duty. No one should or actually is all republican or all democrat, all right or all left. Thats the problem. Each person has unique life experience to bring to the problems of our country.

So am I offended by Phil's comments, a little. But I like the dead for the music. And hey anyone who says the dead scene wasn't capitalist at heart needs to take another look. I've never scene a more fun example of capitalism at work as at a dead show. Everyone trying to make a buck to support their lifestyle. That is capitalism. The dead weren't giving it out for free or taxing others to support their lifestyle. They worked incredibly hard and were paid well for it. So becareful when you try to throw out capitalism as an evil. In my experience working hard for a reward produces the best in people who are grounded in faith. People who find their worth in money will abuse a capitalist system and give it a bad name. So again we have to remember to allways look at the individual and not the group.

Thanks for starting this post.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"So again we have to remember to allways look at the individual and not the group."

Our country has done a ton of bad bad things as a group.

Individuals often do a CYA with some plausible deniability:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

And most of us, like me, are just logs entertaining ourselves to death.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Nice.. You rant about politics, then say you don't care about politics! HA! I guess we're all full of contradictions.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 3, 2009 6:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

No need to feel like a fish out of water, there are plenty of folks on this forum that are both Deadheads and conservatives. It's a misnomer to assume that the vast majority of heads are way left in terms of their political alignment as the stereotype goes. Instead, what you'll find both camps rather passionate about their politics and most of it is based on life experience rather than association.

In general, it seems to me that heads are pretty much a reflection of society in general. Perhaps a little more independent thinking, and issue focused, but in most cases, better informed and better prepared to articulate their positions.

The split between liberals and conservatives is almost a true reflection of the stereotypes in the general public. Those that are self employed as business owners tend toward the ideologies of conservatism. Academes, pro labor, working stiffs and attorneys tend the other way. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general even the regular participants on this forum are somewhat evenly divided.

Perhaps the one anomaly to be found here is those that are rather apolitical, almost universally critical of the system. Lacking trust in either party while having a moderate approach to politics, both social and fiscal. You'll also find these folks to be more tolerant, very issue and ideology oriented, yet refrain from the hate speech and name calling reserved for those with large mouths and small brains.

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 3, 2009 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I will respond to this post in a proper manner and hopefully not get flamed. I have made and joined in on lots of discussions of this nature on this forum. I AM guilty of not reading enough of the comments before I post.....Also guilty of posting before I think. We all have different opinons and can express them. That is what makes this country what it is...GREAT! I think we can all agree to disagree, and thank our respective God for the right to do so. That being said, I was hoping that Phil was above such comments and stay out of the fray (sp?). I do have a big beef with Bob about such matters (including other matters previously posted), and it has kind of spoiled me with him. I don't think Phil could ever do that to me, but just as with other celebrities, I pay them to do a job by buying their product not to give their political outlook. I do realize he was asked this question and not giving unsolicited comments which is why it's cool with me.

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Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Sep 3, 2009 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I know several serious fans of the music whose politics might best be labeled libertarian -- all govt is bad, and liberal/leftist governments are the worst because they get more involved in individuals' lives. They're fairly passionate about gun control (evil), taxes (unfortunate at best, but we need a military), and welfare (everyone who can, should stand on their own two feet). Two of these guys are or were committed bikers for most of their youth, thoug not Angels.

Among young people I've met who appreciate the Dead, there are some who think that all government is and must always be fucked up beyond repair, and is best ignored. They might be labelled right-wing/anarchists. A few of these guys survive by dumpster-diving and shoplifting, but they're much more excioted about punk and metal than about the Dead.

Personally, I'm an aging New Lefty whose faith in democracy and the Jeffersonian "people" hasn't wavered much over the decades. The Marxist critique of society still seems pretty accurate to me, though Marxist solutions obviously cause more suffering than they relieve. I still welcome any alternative to the capitalist mainstream, be it local food co-ops, credit unions, or just the compost pile.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Sep 3, 2009 7:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Most of my friends are further left that I, and I get along with them fine . That the members of the Dead, I always assumed ,held beliefs to the left of me , but that's fine . Through most of their career they have , in their public stance remained tastefully above , and removed from politics . I am sure they have their reasons (Bush), but I think they have recently been seduced by the pull of politics, and compromised their non-political integrity . But, that is their choice.
This has not stopped me from giving them my money for cds , downloads , etc. !
Music is FAR more important to me than any ideological slant .
While dancing to "Scarlet.>Fire", or listening to "Dark Star", it's hard to want to fight anyone ,
Liberals like the Grateful Dead, conservatives NEED the Grateful Dead !

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

It funny your right about the deads politic or lack their of, I think above all the dead represent the music most for me. Politics aside there is good and evil. But in order for that to be true you must believe in one before you can believ4 in either. You can have the luxury of believing in heaven and not hell.
I know I'm offending Aetheist but I'm not 'cause in my utopia anybody can be who they want. Freewill ( hey thats a Rush song ) Nevermind

The dead's few foray into politics is one of my fav shows,now I may have this wrong so correct me if I do but the show is 1971-12-14 Ann Arbor and agian if I wrong but I believe the Dead were Playing that date support the town of Ann Arbor after the student council impeached the city govt
and legalized pot grate story if its true. Wsa it the A.R.M movement ? I guess I got some homework and w/ this birthday show 1968-06-19 with a Main Ten, then I better get busy
Peace

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Sep 3, 2009 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Me, I’m pretty far to the right. Do I care what Phil Lesh thinks about that? Fuck no. I’ve probably got far more in common with the whiskey-swillin’, shotgun-packin’, hell-raisin' characters that populate a fair swath of Hunter’s lyrical landscape than with the band themselves.

I love the Grateful Dead’s music for many reasons, but primarily because it’s constantly re-inventing itself every time I listen to it- I never seem to grow tired of it. That this music was nurtured and developed in the mostly left-leaning atmosphere of the 60s counter culture cannot be de denied, but where it comes from really doesn’t matter that much to me, because once it hits my ears I’m sort of doing my own thing with it anyway. I never went to shows thinking about politics, and I never really cared what the band’s political views were, or those of other Deadheads, or what they might think of mine. That’s not what any of us was there for; if anything, a show was a place where we could leave all that shit behind for a few hours (which was why I was disdainful of the whole Dead-for-Obama thing, but that’s been talked to death). To me, the Grateful Dead was always kind of neutral ground in that regard.

Over the years I’ve noticed that there is a certain type of music fan that needs to feel they identify with an artist on every possible level. It’s not enough for them to immerse themselves in the music- they want to agree with the same politics, espouse the same life views, and sometimes even go as far as to mimic diets and clothing styles. There are a good many Deadheads that definitely fall into this category, and they tend to be the ones who are most vocal in attacking anyone whose expressed opinions appear to deviate from what they deem to be “real” or “true” Deadhead-ness. They also tend to shun other heads who refuse to conform to these trappings. The only “community” they’re interested in is one populated with people just like them.

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Poster: snori Date: Sep 3, 2009 2:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Not wishing to speak to soon (the night is young), but this has the makings of the best political thread ever seen on this Forum.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 3, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

You can ride shotgun for me any day SB as long as you dont mind me putting on a Richfield '90 show on once in awhile